CSI:Gram
The 'Dustin Hornby' of pasting
Reged: 09/11/02
Posts: 6883
Loc: In my 4th grandchild-hood
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Quote:
States Say New IDs Could Cost Billions Sep 21, 11:43 AM (ET)
By ANDREW WELSH-HUGGINS
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - New federal security rules for issuing driver's licenses could cost $11 billion to implement, raising concerns among states about paying for the changes, according to a national survey of states released Thursday.
"There's no question that state legislators believe driver's licenses should be as secure as is possible," said William Pound, executive director of the National Conference of State Legislatures which helped conduct the survey. "The $11 billion question is, 'Who's going to pay for it?'"
The requirements - which are not final - are part of the Real ID Act of 2005, which grew out of a recommendation by the Sept. 11 commission.
The law requires states to incorporate common security features to prevent tampering or counterfeiting, such as using standard materials in every state to print the cards. States will have to verify the legitimacy of documents used to obtain a license and buy equipment to digitally store those documents.
Without such features on their licenses, people would not be allowed to board an airplane or enter a federal building.
Seven of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers exploited a loophole that allowed people to obtain driver's licenses and ID cards by submitting sworn statements instead of proof of residency or identity.
The biggest cost, about $8.5 billion, would come in re-enrolling the 245 million people who already have driver's licenses and identification cards, the survey found. Those people would have to show documents like birth certificates and Social Security cards at motor vehicle offices.
"If you can't find those documents, you might find yourself walking instead of driving," Tom Wolfsohn, chief policy officer for the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators, said Thursday.
The Department of Homeland Security said the government worked closely with associations representing states as it prepared the report.
"Congress passed the Real ID act to help ensure that other potential terrorists don't similarly use fraudulent documents to board planes, enter nuclear facilities or gain authorized access to federal facilities," Homeland Security spokesman Jarrod Agen said Wednesday.
The agency will release its own cost estimates with its final rules by the end of the year, he said.
The law authorizes Congress to pay for the changes but doesn't specify an amount. Pound said the government has released $6 million to date for state pilot programs.
Typically, state motor vehicle agencies are financed by a combination of gasoline taxes, fees and fines. So the extra costs tied to the new security rules could be passed along to consumers.
The survey does not break down the costs by state. States earlier released estimates to The Associated Press, based on equipment they expect to buy, training they must do and the potential hiring of new employees.
Officials in California, with 25 million licensed drivers and ID card holders, said it would cost $500 million over five years to comply with the law. Texas, with 15 million licensed drivers, said startup costs could reach $167 million with annual, ongoing costs of $101 million a year.
Ohio, with a stubbornly high unemployment rate and a recent history of tight budgets, said implementation could cost about $45 million, with about $15 million in new, annual costs.
North Dakota, with a motor vehicle department budget of just $5 million, estimated it would cost up to $15 million to implement the changes.
The survey released Thursday was conducted by NCSL, the National Governors Association and the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators.
So Homeland Security wants to set up a whole new system - requiring everyone to show ID in order to get a new standardized driver's license. So the terrorists won't be able to use forged licenses... just forged ID papers to get REAL licenses. Yeah, that works...
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Oh, to be a studly 3 year-old again!
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Seastar
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/03/00
Posts: 4645
Loc: St Michaels, Maryland
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Yeah, that's a great idea. Just like the wonderful new fence we are going to have for part of our southern border.
-------------------- RIP Miss Ivy Bosley
Sorry about last week.
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hobya
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/99
Posts: 5688
Loc: Sonova Beach
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I really don't know enough about the new requirements to judge whether they would be effective or not. I do agree with the tone of the article though. "Who is going to pay for it?" Underfunded mandates have been one of the hallmarks of the Bush administration and the Republican dominated Congress.
It makes it easier to say you are holding down taxes when instead you pass laws that require either the states or the consumers to pay for them. The funding for these requirements then become defacto taxes.
-------------------- We have it in our power to begin the world over again.
Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776
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CSI:Gram
The 'Dustin Hornby' of pasting
Reged: 09/11/02
Posts: 6883
Loc: In my 4th grandchild-hood
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Hobya, I understand your focus on the economics of politics, but beyond the question of "who is going to pay for this", I think the greater question is "Is this a good plan?" It seems to me to be a plan that just creates a new set of problems and fails to address the situation. Counterfeit documents have been around as long as there has been paper. To assume that terrorists will be prevented from obtaining legitmate licenses (for anything) because they will be thwarted by not haveing proper documentation is naive beyong belief. Regardless of how it is paid for, it is a useless program to propose. IMNTBHO.
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Oh, to be a studly 3 year-old again!
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hobya
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/99
Posts: 5688
Loc: Sonova Beach
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I understand your concerns IG, but your point could be argued to the point of ridiculousness. I mean, why have driver licenses at all? They could be forged right?
If putting in some extra security features can be accomplished without compromising constitutional rights I have no objections, but if they are mandated by the federal government, then the federal government should foot the bill.
-------------------- We have it in our power to begin the world over again.
Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776
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squirreldog
addict
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 644
Loc: Steilacoom, WA
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Quote:
...you pass laws that require either the states or the consumers to pay for them. The funding for these requirements then become defacto taxes.
...but if they are mandated by the federal government, then the federal government should foot the bill.
What's the difference?? The money is coming from the same place... you and me!! In general, tax money gets wasted at all levels of government, but, the higher up it goes, the bigger the percentage of waste! Probably better to put it at the local level.
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hobya
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/99
Posts: 5688
Loc: Sonova Beach
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Quote:
What's the difference?? The money is coming from the same place... you and me!! In general, tax money gets wasted at all levels of government, but, the higher up it goes, the bigger the percentage of waste! Probably better to put it at the local level.
You mean besides the Republicans claiming they are the party that holds down taxes?
Suppose the Federal Government mandated that every citizen should have a statue of Bill Clinton in their yard and required that said citizens should not only pay the cost of that statute, but also the cost of keeping it in good appearance. Would you be ok with that
-------------------- We have it in our power to begin the world over again.
Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776
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squirreldog
addict
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 644
Loc: Steilacoom, WA
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Quote:
Quote:
What's the difference?? The money is coming from the same place... you and me!! In general, tax money gets wasted at all levels of government, but, the higher up it goes, the bigger the percentage of waste! Probably better to put it at the local level.
You mean besides the Republicans claiming they are the party that holds down taxes?
Suppose the Federal Government mandated that every citizen should have a statue of Bill Clinton in their yard and required that said citizens should not only pay the cost of that statute, but also the cost of keeping it in good appearance. Would you be ok with that
Well, would he be smiling and waving or holding his thumb up and biting his lower lip??  Either way doesn't matter I suppose, because you are obviously suggesting that the statue in my yard can keep me safe from terrorist attacks! Right?? 
I thought the point of the article was the expence of the program, not whether the program was a good idea or not. Personally, I think the idea makes sense; why not standardize between the states and absolutely why not make someone show a birth certificate or soc. sec. card to get a liscence?!? The problem is, as my Chief Master Sergeant always said, "Ain't logistics a b****!
However, the point I was making was niether for nor against the program, it was simply that whether the Federal, State, County or City Government pays for the program, it doesn't matter because every penny that each level of government has COMES FROM THE TAXPAYER!!!! It was our money first!! The government takes it from us and then they spend it; usually very badly! (I know PC has tried to explain this to you before, I was hoping you had caught on by now.)
Quote:
You mean besides the Republicans claiming they are the party that holds down taxes?
In comparison to the Democrats... yeah. And just when did the Democrats ever meet a tax increase they didn't like?
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hobya
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/99
Posts: 5688
Loc: Sonova Beach
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And my point is that the Federal Government (read Republicans currently), are being disingenuous when they mandate a program and fail to fund it. The States have X number of dollars to spend. If the Feds require them to spend some of those dollars on a new program then the States either have to cut something else, or raise taxes. I have never denied that the Democrats raise taxes, but let’s be honest about it. If it is your program, you should be the one to fund it, not try to make it look like someone else is raising the taxes.
-------------------- We have it in our power to begin the world over again.
Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776
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Sea Urchin
newbie
Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 49
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They should fix color copiers so that if anyone tries to copy money the machine self-destructs, voids the warranty and calls the cops.
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"He's a wicked man that comes after children when they won't go to bed and throws handfuls of sand in their eyes." ~ Ernst Theodor Amadeus Hoffman (1776-1822)
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